The following is a translation of the interview from volume three of the Tokuma Version of High-Streamer published in 2002:

――Your recently completed work was previously known as the “Tokuma Version/Char’s Counterattack” (Animage Bunko). This was to distinguish it from the Kadokawa Version (Sneaker Bunko) of the same title. It originally began serialization in Animage a year before the release of the movie Char’s Counterattack (May 1987 issue) under the subtitle Hi-Streamer, which might cause some confusion. Now, after fourteen years, it’s been republished under its official title. First, I’d like to ask you, Director, why was it serialized in Animage under the title Hi-Streamer? And how far along was the movie project at that time?

Tomino: I don’t really remember that. However, at the time, the important issue was how to distance myself from Gundam. I wanted a new title, so I came up with Hi-Streamer. I’m not particularly versatile, so I couldn’t completely reinvent Gundam, but the prevailing sentiment was about constant forward motion, facing challenges head-on. That’s what it signified to me.

――In the afterword of the previous edition, you wrote that you wanted to continue writing this work under the title Hi-Streamer. Considering the timeline of the story, does Hathaway’s Flash fit into that concept?

Tomino: Yes, that’s right. While there’s no direct narrative connection, that was the intention. For me, the theme of Hi-Streamer was whether I could effectively write a tragedy, and Hathaway is an extension of that. I hoped it could stand as an original work, not just a Gundam spin-off. But looking at where we are nearly twenty years later, it’s evident that it didn’t quite succeed in that regard.

――It didn’t work out?

Tomino: Are you kidding me? Look at the title: “Mobile Suit Gundam” is still there, isn’t it? (laughs) If it had been successful, you’d be saying, “Let’s go with the title Hi-Streamer. We don’t need ‘Gundam,’ right?” (laughs)  I was trying to outdo the main series with an offshoot. I wanted to create something substantial, even if it was just a side branch. It wasn’t a creative impulse, it was a business strategy. That’s why it failed. Step back and look at it, and you’ll see it’s just been absorbed back into the main Gundam series.

To digress a bit, but you know how people talk about being possessed or cursed? Like, “Our family is bound by this fate”? For me, Gundam was like a vengeful spirit for a while. I thought I’d established Hi-Streamer as a separate entity, but before I knew it, I was just puttering around in the confines of the main franchise. People were saying, “Hey, you’re not really supporting the main series, are you?” It stings, but I have to admit I didn’t have the strength to stand on my own. Even now, 20 years later, the Gundam ghost still haunts me through editors and various people. But recently, I’ve learned to shrug it off. It’s all in your head, you know? I’ve gotten used to it.

――When did that happen?

Tomino: After finishing Turn A Gundam, everything became clear. Until I started working on Brain Powerd, I really thought I was cursed by Gundam, including this structure. But as I began to understand my own mental framework, I realized it was just my own perception. Back then, though, it was truly awful.

――So you weren’t fully “exorcised” during Brain Powerd?

Tomino: Brain Powerd was just rehab for creating Turn A. The whole concept of Brain Powerd started with the premise of making another Gundam afterward. But I can tell you this – if I hadn’t done Turn A Gundam, I might still be cursing people with this re-release, thinking, “They still won’t let me drop the Gundam name. Damn it all!” (laughs) But cursing others is exhausting. You can feel yourself becoming twisted.

――It seems that Turn A not only lifted the curse from you, but from the entire Gundam franchise as well.

Tomino: That would be nice, but… Sunrise is currently making Gundam SEED, and I hope the staff involved are doing it with the intention of ending Gundam. I told them to do as they like without worrying about various things. As creators, it must be frustrating to have to work on someone else’s title, so I want them to channel that frustration into something incredible. The curse is real and it’s bigger than any individual, so it’s tough, you know?

――The movie Char’s Counterattack is highly regarded by fans, but what was your mentality like during its production?

Tomino: You might not believe it, but I was at my wit’s end. I recently saw it again – or rather, was made to see it – at an event in New York.  Sure, I tried to approach it positively since I had the chance to make a movie, but I was so focused on just wrapping things up that it’s not a visually appealing work. It doesn’t feel good to watch.

――I thought it was a very passionate film.

Tomino: Of course it was. I was a professional, even back then. A professional’s skill is to hide the creator’s emotional state. That’s a given. These days, you see a lot of films lacking that skill. I’m not just talking about anime – even when I watch Hollywood blockbusters, I can see the apathy, like they’re just going through the motions. It’s frustrating when those still outsell my movies or win awards. I should be happy about the New York screening on 35mm film in a big theater on Broadway, but it’s not like it was a road show release, so I can’t really celebrate. In my case, unless I reach my goal, I feel like a failure. Given the fan following, maybe “failure” is too strong a word, but I feel pathetic about my directorial shortcomings when I can’t compete with Harry Potter or Spirited Away.

――It’s amazing how you never give up on things that many people would ignore or abandon for self-protection. “Newtypes” are a crucial concept in the Gundam world, and looking at characters like Amuro and Char, it seems their ability is “a strong sensitivity to misfortune, but an absolute refusal to give up.” In other words, it’s you, Director Tomino (laughs).

Tomino: Maybe so (laughs). These days, there are more people who can’t endure things, but being unable to endure and refusing to give up are superficially similar words with completely different meanings.

――If we strip away the “mecha” filter from the Gundam narrative, what remains is the story of “Newtypes” – people who can’t give up. How much sympathy do you think young fans and creators feel for this core concept?

Tomino: There might not be much, to be honest. On the creators’ side, many have joined since anime became a socially recognized medium, treating it as just another profession. They might love drawing or the Gundam-esque world and characters, but few have that “something extra.” I can’t say for certain without talking to individual staff members, but it’s natural that people joining a socially accepted profession would have a fundamentally different mentality and approach compared to those who had no choice but to work in an unrecognized field. It was my refusal to give up and my constant search for new forms of expression that allowed me to create the early Gundam series.

So, if there’s anyone in the next generation who wants to create something new, something like the Gundam of that era, I want them to see me as their enemy. They should be extremely wary of feeling sympathy towards me. Why? It might sound arrogant, but when I was briefly at Mushi Pro, I saw Osamu Tezuka as my fundamental enemy. Of course, I respected him and looked up to him as a senior, but in terms of creating stories professionally, I always saw him as an adversary. I had this compulsion that I had to see him that way to stay relevant. That’s why I fought to deviate from Tezuka’s original framework in Triton. It was only later that I could finally have good conversations with Mr. Tezuka.

――In the afterword of Triton of the Sea in Kodansha’s Tezuka Complete Works, there was a sense of reluctant admiration for the anime version from Tezuka.

Tomino: I only vaguely remember, but was there?

――There was. It’s a good master-disciple relationship. By the way, Char’s Counterattack concludes the Gundam story that began with Amuro and Char, but how important are these two to you?

Tomino: Not important at all (laughs). Creating popular fiction is like this, if you worry about such things, you can’t surpass Chikamatsu, can you? Chikamatsu didn’t intend to create classics, he wrote popular fiction. You’ve got to aim to beat that. I don’t have the skills to aim for the Akutagawa or Naoki Prize, so I want to beat Chikamatsu. Is that so wrong? (laughs)

――Mentioning Chikamatsu explains why your novels have such a high romance quotient. In Hi-Streamer, Amuro’s always chasing after one girl after another. It’s like The Life of an Amorous Man (laughs). By the way, I heard that Amuro was created as an antithesis to the anime fans of that time.

Tomino: Amuro and Kamille were both clearly positioned as antitheses. As a creator of popular fiction, I naturally created them intentionally based on the social climate of the time, but I never expected fans to accept them.

――What about Lalah’s character?

Tomino: She’s another entirely intentional character. When I consider whether I have any talent as a popular fiction writer, Lalah makes me think I might not have any at all. Because she’s a character that doesn’t exist within me, I’m just moving her based on pure logic. In other words, I’m too conscious of the peripheral elements and can’t create the broader, more expansive aspects that popular fiction should have. That’s why I’m utterly hopeless when it comes to moving characters like Lalah or Quess.

――What power do you think popular fiction holds? Which characters do you feel embody this power?

Tomino: Among the Gundam characters, the ones created without any business-oriented intentions, purely from my subconscious, are Ramba Ral and his wife. I still love them very much. Those two came into being so naturally, and even at my age now, I think, “Man, this couple is great.” That’s why I remember Hamon’s last lines so well. I didn’t remember anything from Char’s Counterattack until I watched it recently. It’s that kind of subconscious awareness, that feeling of “this is the only way it could be,” that I want to capture. Even when working on anime, I want to do work that people will recognize as coming from a true creator of popular fiction. That’s why I’m now deliberately constraining myself with works like King Gainer in an attempt to be a true popular fiction creator. This makes me incredibly happy. The thought that I might be able to reclaim something I once discarded fills me with joy. The sense of living in the moment – right now, I am truly Hi-Streamer.