INTERVIEW WITH MOBILE SUIT V GUNDAM CHIEF DIRECTOR
YOSHIYUKI TOMINO

So far, we’ve shed light on the many facets of “Mobile Suit V Gundam.” However, I believe it’s high time we bring Director Tomino into the limelight for the closing remarks. After all, the image of this series in the minds of many is, in no small part, colored by the director’s provocative past remarks. In light of its 30th anniversary, we’ve taken the opportunity to invite him to look back on the series once again. So, without further ado, let’s hear what he has to say!

Composition by Hiroyuki Kawai

THE FRIGHTENING COINCIDENTAL RELEVANCE TO MODERN WARFARE

―――The year 1993, when Mobile Suit V Gundam (hereafter, V Gundam) was on the air, can be said to be a time when fans who were around elementary to high school age and had led the Mobile Suit Gundam boom had been away from Gundam for about ten years. On the other hand, 1993 was a period after the end of the Cold War between the East and the West, and it was also a time when war felt less relevant, and the interest in war had diminished for the Japanese. Compared to Mobile Suit Gundam, which presented a clear conflict structure reminiscent of World War II or the East-West Cold War, V Gundam might have had difficulty captivating interest.
　　However, looking back, it’s clear that V Gundam is undeniably part of Tomino’s works that lead up to “Reconguista in G” (hereafter, G-Reco), a distinctive “Gundam-like” creation. Looking back at the series on its 30th anniversary, I believe many aspects can be understood and appreciated, including the social climate of the time. That’s why I would like to ask Director Tomino how he feels about V Gundam today.

TOMINO: With the 30th-anniversary interview request, I revisited V Gundam and reviewed some of it. As far as directing is concerned, there were shortcomings and looseness in the direction, but there was also the opposite impression. And that is the relevance to the times. It’s been a year since the war between Ukraine and Russia started. To me, V Gundam feels so on the nose it’s like it’s entirely about Putin’s war. If Putin had watched V Gundam, I think he definitely wouldn’t have gone to war.
　　Previously, a sociologist said, “Putin’s war is a war of the medieval royalty and titled nobility, not a modern war,” and that’s exactly it. A “war of the royalty and titled nobility” is a war where the king’s direct forces arrive at his call and retreat once he is satisfied, not a total war involving the economy and everything else between nations.
　　From the 19th to the 20th century, wars should have been fought between nations. Even in the Middle East, depending on the situation, sectarian or regional wars had an atmosphere of major power collisions. However, it has regressed to classical warfare.

―――Indeed, there are undoubtedly various aspects that seem to correlate.

TOMINO: We live in strange times, don’t you think? Given the current reality that we are being confronted with, there may be a sense in which the values of V Gundam are being reevaluated. It almost feels like we’ve narrowly escaped something. However, I also find myself thinking, “Is it really appropriate to discuss works that are categorized as ‘robot-themed’ solely based on that criteria?”
　　I recently saw a poster for ‘Science Ninja Team Gatchaman’ downtown. There might be people who would say, ‘I love Gatchaman; it looks so cool,’ but such praise is not usually directed toward V Gundam.

――― I don’t think there are many people who remember the details of the story of “Science Ninja Team Gatchaman” (laughs). On the other hand, V Gundam directly interprets the era and reflects it in the work, and after 30 years, we are reminded of the strength of that reflection. I recall a previous discussion where you mentioned that it is “impossible to create a work while ignoring the spirit of the times.” Your comment reminded me of that.

TOMINO: The fact that there was a work called “V Gundam” in 1993 that fits so perfectly with Putin’s war may seem to have foresight at first glance, but I believe it merely illustrates that events could only unfold this way and that humans could only evolve in this manner. Since the advent of the six major religions, nothing new has emerged in human history. For 1,000 years, humanity hasn’t done anything novel. Sure, scientific advancements have increased productivity, and energy has switched to electricity, making life seem ‘new’ and convenient, but we haven’t achieved a lifestyle that doesn’t structurally depend on energy.
　　In ‘Mobile Suit Gundam’ with the Newtype theory, I once believed that ‘humanity might be capable of evolution,’ but now I feel, ‘Perhaps not after all.’ However, when considering the history of humanity and the world order after Putin’s war, today’s 10-year-olds will grow up experiencing this peculiar warfare. They will have a completely different experience growing up compared to the previous generations who experienced the Vietnam War and the Cold War, so humanity might start to change a bit from here on.
　　If you look back at human history, there are hardly any cases of philosophers becoming politicians. The reason is that politics is for those capable of handling practical affairs, not for the likes of philosophers who can’t manage such tasks. But, I believe the children growing up knowing the facts of this war may not turn out to be the type of politicians we’ve come to expect. It’s conceivable that we may see the appearance of people who, while not Newtypes per se, engage in politics in a Newtype-like manner. Right now, we know one such politician.

――― Who might that be?

TOMINO: President Zelenskyy. When faced with external pressure, the one who had the strongest resistance was someone who doesn’t fit the traditional image of a politician… He was a comedic actor who appeared to be at the bottom of the hierarchy among actors.
　　I had been vaguely thinking about this, but when he came to Hiroshima, I realized he was the ‘real deal.’ His actions are unlike those of any previous politician. EU politicians might wonder, “What’s there to come all the way to the Far East for?” But everyone knows what happened in Hiroshima, and it has actually made news worldwide. The idea that “a different type of politician may emerge” or “the world may change a little in 20 years” became conceivable because I made V Gundam. Even for ‘G Reco,’ I feel it could have been created because there was V Gundam. It all forms a perfect flow.

INCORPORATING ISSUES OF RACE AND GENDER NATURALLY

―――In the context of the times, I presume your visit to Eastern Europe before producing “V Gundam” was also looking ahead to the post-Cold War world.

TOMINO: It is true. I often find myself pondering, ‘Why did I travel to Prague?’ The answer is unequivocal. Eastern Europe was the crossroads of the West and Asia. The races present there, and the atmosphere encompassing that place are the most representative of the world. I knew it would be a mistake to conceive a story from the Far East alone, and thus, Prague became my chosen destination.
　　On setting foot on the land, the feeling of continuity struck me. The military conflicts that arose post-Alexander in Europe, the Viking invasions, the prosperity of the Roman Empire…when you contemplate it all, it comes down to the importance of this sense of continuity. That’s when the reality of how the Roman Empire managed to rule the entirety of Europe dawned on me.
　　The sense of continuity displayed till the point of Gibraltar’s escape in the first half of V Gundam stemmed from this very experience. And this experience was duly utilized in “G-Reco.”
　　This sense of continuity, however, is hard to grasp in Japan, even if you understand it intellectually. Watching “What Will You Do, Ieyasu?”, it’s evident that Japan’s Sengoku period was, after all, just wars fought within five or so territories. It’s different from waging wars, where simply crossing two mountains would suffice. That’s why I felt that a different atmosphere was necessary when I conceived the character setting of someone from a family related to the guillotine in “V Gundam.”
　　Moreover, numerous female characters were introduced. The primary reason being to convey a consciousness of various lands and countries. The ladies in Prague were all beautiful, each of a different type, something hard to fathom in Japan.
　　The reason I introduced so many female characters is that if you only focus on mecha and approach everything from that perspective, it becomes monotonous. So, when humans reach adulthood, what concerns them the most? Issues of the opposite sex. Hence, the simultaneous introduction of Mariaism and the desire to firmly establish the sovereignty of femininity, but this overlapped strikingly with today’s gender issues. So, there was a sense of disgust once the creation was complete, but upon revisiting, I was surprised to feel, ‘Isn’t this a completely different work from what I initially envisioned?’

―――In V Gundam, you managed to have racial representation, something you reflected on as being quite challenging to accomplish during the original Mobile Suit Gundam era, and that is another aspect that I feel captures the essence of the era.

TOMINO: The issue of race is something that keeps following us more and more, moving into times like the present. Forever, it seems. I often think that this is an issue humanity might never surpass. And the gap that is most felt is not between white and black.
　　In Japanese, it would be commonly referred to as “kinship hatred,” but it seems that humans instinctively harbor a sense of wariness towards those who are “similar but a little different.” I find this more concerning than the current gender issues.
　　On the other hand, I think it’s easier to understand when there are clear differences. In fact, it’s the case with my family. My daughter’s husband is German and Swiss, and we still don’t communicate fluently. But I bet I’d prefer him over a Japanese son-in-law if I had one (laughs). I don’t know the exact reason for that, but maybe it’s because they have the determination that “even if we can’t understand each other’s language, we have to be together,” which allows them to have more tolerance.

――― This isn’t just about guest characters but about making the main characters embody strong racial identities.

TOMINO: What surprised me this time was the skin color of Marbet and Shakti. I didn’t expect them to be this dark. It reminded me of something that I had long forgotten, which was when Ryu Jose’s skin color was made lighter in Mobile Suit Gundam, and I was really angry about it back then. With Ryu, there were complaints from the TV stations.
　　So, I feel like there was a sense of the era that finally allowed the use of black skin. In reality, no one said anything about Marbet and Shakti’s skin color being that way. And even when we introduced Tomas and Karell later on, nobody made a fuss. However, now that I think about it, I can’t really figure out why Shakti’s particular skin color worked so well (laughs).

――― Judging by the name, I assume you were envisioning someone of Indian descent. When many Japanese think of black people, they often picture individuals of African descent. Introducing a black Indian character was an intriguing endeavor, don’t you think?

TOMINO: Absolutely. Shakti is, after all, one of the most common names in India. In hindsight, I feel like we could’ve made her more Indian. But I suppose I was just glad to finally portray a black character properly.

――― The subtlety of Usso’s age was striking too. Amuro felt like a child among adults, whereas Uso’s age places him squarely among children, a clear outsider on the battlefield. This alien presence also gives rise to drama among adults.

TOMINO: The older ladies in the Shrike Team certainly don’t see Usso as a man, do they? They keep calling him ‘boy.’ And Usso, for his part, doesn’t feel any kind of sexuality, even when his face is buried in Lupe Cineau’s bosom. To Usso, it’s like taking a bath with his mother. On the other hand, he admires Katejina, but Uso’s sense of sexuality is entirely based on my experience.
　　As I’ve mentioned before, I grew up in Odawara City, Kanagawa Prefecture, where my father worked at a junior high school. Many of his students were innkeepers, and we often visited their houses and used their baths. Back then, the Hakone Yumoto had a public bathhouse with a thousand-person capacity, and it was coed. I loved being the first one in the bath, and when beautiful older girls came in pairs, I would just think, ‘Oh, they’re pretty.’ I never made a fuss about bathing with the opposite sex, and I never understood men who did.

――― The sense that mixed bathing is normal and the feeling that older women are beautiful are two things that probably only coincide at Uso’s age.

TOMINO: I doubt it would have worked if he were 15. Reflecting on how I perceived sexuality in relation to older women when I was a child, I must admit I think Usso’s age was set perfectly. Only because he was a ‘boy’ I could depict the blossoming aspect of a ‘boy.’ However, this is something that only works in anime.

――― In terms of depicting a young boy, there was a term not yet widespread in Japan in 1993, “gifted.” It’s impressive how you integrated the perspective of “even with the power of a genius, they’re still largely a child” in “gifted education.” Director Tomino, you have been hailed for your “foresight,” but I think it’s not so much prophetic as it is a matter of “how you interpret and perceive reality.”

TOMINO: I’m grateful for such comments. When planning, in my case, when using the medium of anime, I can’t fill everything with lies. In other words, I can’t depict a character like Lum-chan (laughs). Especially after 30 years, being able to actually feel such things makes me think that looking back at ‘V Gundam’ as a work of retrospective theory was probably a good idea.”

THE TRUE VISION OF GUNDAM HE WANTED TO ACHIEVE

――Regarding the mecha design, especially the Victory Gundam, I felt it was depicted very pragmatically as a machine. I wondered if this was closer to what you originally wanted to do with Mobile Suit Gundam.

TOMINO: Absolutely, that was intentional. Up until then, we’d been too constrained by the influence of giant robot shows, feeling like “if it can’t combine, it’s useless.” It’s not just about having the ability to separate and combine; we needed to show that “there are these specific applications for separation and combination.” I was incredibly focused on directing it to show that in actual combat, it wouldn’t be usable unless it was at this level, this speed. But on the flip side, when parts are constantly separating and combining without the main theme playing, there are plenty of moments where you think, “What’s going on here?” The docking scenes in giant robot shows are crucial – they change the mood and make the story clearer (laughs). In retrospect, I should have been more mindful of balancing those elements.

――In the ’80s, the “mecha realism” that we as young boys wanted to see was exactly like what we got in V Gundam. But as the ’80s progressed, trends changed, and it seemed many people moved away from “realism” towards things like video games. I suppose this aligns with the zeitgeist of the era.

TOMINO: I didn’t have time to imagine all that. I thought, “Maybe I can realize these principles in the V Gundam era.” And since Bandai (now BANDAI SPIRITS), who knew all about the previous Gundam series, was the sponsor, I figured they’d let me do these kinds of movements without complaint. And sure, we managed to pull it off. They let me do it, but it ended up being so choppy that the story became hard to follow (laughs). Like, “Wait, when did Uso fly out in just the Core Fighter?” There are countless moments where you want to say, “Come on, make it a bit clearer!”

――It seems the pursuit of realism inadvertently created some unexpected issues.

TOMINO: To be honest, this was only possible because Hajime Katoki joined us. The Okawara generation couldn’t have created that design. But Katoki could, which meant we could show those quick, choppy movements even in a single cut of animation. At the time, I did push him, saying, “Think about this realistically and execute it. You’re capable of it.” I think that’s part of why the Katoki style became established. I’m a bit proud of having brought Katoki on board.

――On the other hand, not just in V Gundam but in general, it seems like there’s been a constant challenge to surpass the Zaku on the enemy side.

TOMINO: It wasn’t really a challenge, though it might have appeared that way. In the end, we simply “couldn’t find a color to rival the Zaku.” In that sense, the Zaku’s sins are just too much (laughs). But if you tell me we couldn’t surpass it because we lacked effort or sense at the time, all I can say is “I’m sorry.” With the Zanscare units, I sometimes thought, “Why stick to one color?” We could’ve done more, but any more detail and the coloring process would’ve imploded. Still, for machines that big, I really wish we’d moved past monochrome.

――The Shokew was a solid color too. It might have been more popular if the colors were varied a bit.

TOMINO: I completely agree.

――One of the major highlights in V Gundam’s world-building is the Angel Halo.

TOMINO: To be honest, until I rewatched it recently, I thought the Angel Halo was actually moving. With each ring moving independently.

――Given the premise of Angel Halo – with its 20,000 psychickers trying to erase the fighting spirit from Earth’s population – and considering the story leading up to the finale, it seems like there was potential for a lot more drama. But with the series already packed with elements, I wonder if some aspects were cut to avoid overcomplicating things.

TOMINO: Regarding the psychickers, it might seem like we delved deep, but in reality, we didn’t explore it much and I realize now we didn’t research it properly. But it’s true that I wanted to include psychickers. Rewatching, I was startled to hear the line about “regression phenomena” – we’d actually thought that far ahead. You know, a story about psychickers escaping the Angel Halo might be worth telling. In the show, we dealt with psychickers as a collective, but whether the issues that arise when they become a collective connect to the Newtype theory or not – I already have that logic worked out in my mind. Thinking about it now, I really wish we could’ve had all the Angel Halo’s rings moving. But without CGI back then? No way in hell. (laughs)

THE UNYIELDING STRENGTH OF THE STAFF CARRIED THEM THROUGH TOUGH TIMES

――Looking back at your past statements about V Gundam, Director Tomino, some were quite provocative, like saying “Don’t watch it.” These and other comments seem to have made it challenging for people to evaluate the work objectively.

TOMINO: At my age, I’ve pretty much sworn off making those kinds of comments. Truth is, we were under a ton of pressure back then. I didn’t know about Sunrise (now Bandai Namco Filmworks) potentially being sold until after we finished the series, but I sensed something was off with the production department’s attitude. When there’s no solid support from the production department, freelance staff tend to feel unstable. We were all on edge, thinking the plug could get pulled any minute. here I was, supposedly calling the shots, but I couldn’t manage it effectively. Add to that, I wasn’t exactly in love with the overall animation. So yeah, I’ll admit it – I developed a bit of a chip on my shoulder about V Gundam.

However, considering the average skill level of animators, they were actually doing their best. I now understand they were working under strict frame limitations and enduring tough conditions. For instance, looking at episodes 2 and 3 now, I’m surprised at how well-established V Gundam’s animation style was. I thought, “Were they all this skilled?”

Also, while I intended to portray the Leage Militiare as a large organization, we also introduced a religious element like Mariaism to make it appear more like an inter-state war. I felt we needed to set it in space and make it a space war. The whole Gundam franchise was in a slump, and I felt this pressure to turn things around. But we couldn’t quite hit that “war between nations” level I was aiming for. I wasn’t consciously fixating on it, but man, I was feeling the heat. There was a time when I was so wound up, I’d thought, “I’ll never like V Gundam!” But you know what? There were parts worth another look. And it wasn’t me – it was the staff who really got what we were going for. Watching it again, I can see how hard everyone was working behind the scenes. I feel awful for giving them such a hard time.

――You were in your 50s at the time, right? Nowadays, issues like male menopause are discussed, and the 50s are said to be a particularly challenging decade. What were your 50s like for you?

TOMINO: It wasn’t simple. Including my time in Prague, I felt a sense of crisis. I’d poured everything into Gundam, and felt like I couldn’t squeeze out anything more. But it’s not that I missed the mark entirely – after all, I did manage to create something. By crafting a story that spanned all of Europe, and not just having space colonies when we went to space, but coming up with something like the Angel Halo, I could finally breathe. It felt like I could move beyond Gundam, and I realized I could still create something new. Even when I thought I’d wrung out every last drop, there was still more to give. It made me think I might make it to my 60s after all.
Sure, Victory Gundam drove me into a depression that wasn’t easy to shake. But I wasn’t senile or depressed without reason. That was actually a blessing in disguise. So, here’s my take on being in your 50s: You’re still young, dammit! You don’t start feeling old until you’re past 70. Your 50s? That’s your second wind. It’s not quite a second youth, but it’s your chance to make a comeback. Don’t you dare start thinking about retirement and pension plans. You’ve got more life to live!

――We’ve got a lot of readers in their 50s. Any words of wisdom for them?

TOMINO: Have a sense of purpose. And though it might be hard for people in their 50s to accept, fully support what young people are trying to do. In other words, stop imposing your own opinions.

THE MEANING BEHIND REEVALUATING V GUNDAM FROM A MODERN PERSPECTIVE

――(Laughs) Looking at it as a whole, this work isn’t just about creating a 4-cour anime…

TOMINO: You can really feel the weight of a 4-cour series. Let me put it this way – when you spend a year building that kind of world with that much content, it’s gonna knock the wind right out of you. There’s no way in hell I could’ve jumped into another project right after. It sucked the life force right out of me!

――Are there any parts you’d want to revisit or modify if given the chance?

TOMINO: The music. I wish I’d been more hands-on there. I left it entirely to others, and now I’m kicking myself. After all the criticism I received for the original Mobile Suit Gundam, we brought in Daisuke Inoue for the movie version, and I felt his passion as an artist. Here’s the thing about music – whether it’s a hit or not, the tunes that stick with you for 20, 30 years? They’re the ones with real heart. Superficial songs don’t last. To get that raw emotion, you’ve gotta pour your blood, sweat, and tears into it. That’s the only way to create something that really resonates.

――It might be a cliché question, but looking back on “V Gundam” now, what kind of work has it become for you?

TOMINO: You know what shocked me the most? I used to think, “What’s the point of putting wheels on a battleship?” But watching it again, it actually works in the context of the show! I was so hung up on Gundam being “real robots” that I couldn’t stomach the idea. But hey, it’s a giant robot anime, right? Might as well roll with it. Looking back, it’s set up pretty well – not nearly as bad as I remembered. It’s like when we brought in the guillotine – at first, I hated it, but seeing how it played into Fuala’s character arc? Both turned out surprisingly okay. It’s like, “Hey, Tomino, you were down in the dumps, but you were actually onto something!”

――Rewatching it, we can clearly see the progression from Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam through V Gundam to G-Reco.

TOMINO: Realizing that G-Reco started here makes me think, “Maybe making V Gundam wasn’t such a bad call after all.” All that experience, knowledge – well, maybe not knowledge, but let’s say ‘volume of information’ – it all carried through. One thing’s for sure – this ain’t your run-of-the-mill robot show. Also, thanks to the recent war in Ukraine, I felt that “V Gundam” had elements that were even more realistic than the original Mobile Suit Gundam. While it may not be the most polished work in some aspects, I’m glad to know that there are people who don’t dislike it.

――Lastly, just one thing: why did you have Shakti say “Please watch” in the preview? It seems too on-the-nose for this series, doesn’t it?

TOMINO: Oh, shut up (laughs). It’s cute, isn’t it?

――(Laughs) Thank you so much for your time.

TOMINO: Alright then, everyone – make sure you “Please watch!”