SHINN’S EXISTENCE BECAME KIRA’S SALVATION

——You mentioned before the release that you were curious about the fans’ reactions, but it ended up being the biggest hit among Gundam series movies.

Fukuda: For me, it’s not so much “I’m glad it was a hit,” but more like “I should have done this or that better.” Not that I’m dismissing the joy and excitement of the fans. It’s just that I wasn’t creating with a movie-making mindset. I myself had never made a movie before, and when people do things they’re not used to, they often get nervous and mess up. My focus was on creating a story that extends the world of Gundam SEED and SEED DESTINY. So, I was very grateful that the work was accepted.

——What was really impressive in this film was the depiction of the relationship between Kira and Lacus. In SEED and DESTINY, it was hard to put a name to their relationship, so to speak.

Fukuda: Although there are subtle changes in the nature of Kira and Lacus’s relationship, the fact that they care for each other has not changed. I didn’t have them say specific words, though.

——So, when they clearly said “I love you” in this film, did you have a change of heart as a director?

Fukuda: I used to feel that the phrase “I love you” felt trivial. The moment you say, “I like you,” you start to wonder, “What do you like?” “What part do you like?” “Why do you like it?” It used to be that actions, not words, were the truest form of expression, that feeling each other’s presence was what mattered most. That’s what I used to think.

——In other words, the relationship between the two hasn’t changed from before.

Fukuda: No, it hasn’t changed. I mean, it’s precisely because it’s the ultimate feeling that I didn’t let them say, “I like you.” But now, I think maybe words are the only way to convey it in this day and age. As Athrun says in the work, “There are things that can only be conveyed with words.” So I told the staff that instead of saying “I like you,” let’s go with “I love you.”

——You made the expression more modern.

Fukuda: Yes. Back in the ’70s, anime often pushed the idea of love, making “I love you” a cliché used for deceiving or evading. I used to think that the feeling of really liking someone was something that you convey in a different way or something that you feel in your dynamic with each other. But this time, by putting it into words properly, I think it got through to the audience, and they realized, “Oh, I see it now.” Even though we seldom say “I like you” in real life, I’ve learned through this experience that words play a vital role both in reality and in storytelling.

——Speaking of which, there was a moment when Kira said, “Because you guys are weak.”

Fukuda: Oh, yeah. I thought, man, he hasn’t changed.

——(laughs). Those words reminded me of what he said in SEED’s PHASE-17 Cagalli Returns. “No one even stops to think about what’s going through my mind during a battle!” It made me realize that the loneliness he felt back then is still with him.

Fukuda: Kira has always shouldered his burden alone, with no one to share the load, so his perspective remains unchanged. Sai and Tolle couldn’t do it, and although Cagalli cares for him, she can’t carry the burden for him. But this time, Athrun and Shinn carried it together with him. Shinn’s presence, in particular, is significant, as Athrun isn’t always by Kira’s side.

——So, it’s not just Shinn being saved by Kira but also Kira finding salvation in Shinn.

Fukuda: At the end of DESTINY, when Shinn met Kira at the Orb Memorial, Shinn thought he had been wrong. Throughout DESTINY, he was aware of his errors. Attacking Orb with Requiem isn’t justifiable by any standard. But it’s not Shinn’s fault; he was in a situation where he couldn’t deny Rey and Durandal and had no choice but to move forward. Even though he thought he was making a mistake, he couldn’t pull back. And on top of that, Athrun was there, criticizing him outright…

——And after the battle was over, he came face to face with Kira.

Fukuda: That’s where Kira kind of acknowledged Shinn and told him that he could start over. “No matter how badly things get blown apart, we will always plant flowers again,” he said. Basically, those words from Kira dispelled Shinn’s frustration and saved him. Even if what he had been doing was wrong, he was able to think that he could start over, that it was okay to start over. That’s why Shinn decided to fight alongside Kira in COMPS.

WANTING TO PUT YZAK AND DEARKA IN A GUNDAM

——The Millennium crew, including the new characters, were full of personality and gave impressive performances. Neumann, for example, showed his top-notch steering skills by narrowly avoiding the Requiem, which was a hot topic among fans.

Fukuda: Basically, he had a role like “Helmsman 1” and hardly had any lines, but he’s a veteran helmsman who didn’t let the Archangel sink in two wars, so I thought he could do that much.

——Albert was also hugely impactful with his capable preparation of terrifying new weapons and his rapid-fire speech that made you think he was the only one at double speed. Jun Fukuyama’s performance was also spot-on.

Fukuda: Albert’s way of speaking is modeled after Dr. Toshiyuki Sawaguchi, a neuroscientist. The way he speaks super fast makes him look really smart, so I made the character a fast talker. I wanted someone like Albert, who has a different vibe from mechanics like Murdoch and Aves, someone who is knowledgeable in science and technology from design to development. Kira and Athrun are also well-versed in technology, but there hasn’t been anyone who specializes in it until now.

——Albert seemed to trust Kira, or rather, they seemed to get along well.

Fukuda: That’s right. If I’m being honest, Albert only tries to interact with smart people. His value is based on how fast his mind works, and he thinks he can’t relate to people who don’t meet a certain standard. He respects Kira and Konoe for their intelligence, and conversely, he tries to avoid the athletic types like Maas and Herbert. He also talks down to Luna quite a bit, and he doesn’t even talk to the executive officer Arthur in the first place (laughs).

——But you need a mood-maker like Arthur in a team or organization, right? His reactions lightened up some serious scenes this time, too.

Fukuda: Arthur is a good character. Just having him around lowers everyone’s stress levels.

——Konoe fit in so well that it felt like he had been there from the beginning, even though this was his first appearance.

Fukuda: It was Morosawa (scriptwriter) who said she wanted Hochu Otsuka to play Konoe. I told Otsuka about it, but Konoe is a person who has never lost and doesn’t actively fight. He’s very good at skillfully retreating from the battlefield when he’s about to lose, very good at running away. On the battlefield, losing means dying, so he runs around to survive, and when it’s time to retreat, he takes command and brings his allies back. So, while he doesn’t have a lot of achievements in battle, and his success rate in operations is low, his unit attrition rate is low, and he has a lot of trust from his subordinates.

——In a sense, he’s a professional soldier.

Fukuda: Yes. If I were to follow someone, I’d rather have someone like Konoe, who is clever and doesn’t put unnecessary stress on me, than someone who fights for a country or ideology. He was originally with ZAFT on the lunar front, but he joined COMPS from there at the request of his acquaintance, Chairman de Lament of PLANT. He may have also been interested in young people like Kira and Shinn.

——It’s interesting how different he is from Captain Murrue, even though they’re both captains.

Fukuda: I was thinking of making him someone who wouldn’t clash with Murrue. If we had another character like Captain Talia from DESTINY, the two of them would have had no choice but to move forward. Also, soldiers are usually depicted as reckless people who tend to disregard human life, right? I also wanted to bring in someone like Yang Wen-li from Legend of the Galactic Heroes, who is laid-back and resourceful and looks a bit unreliable as a soldier.

——Although they weren’t directly involved in the main drama of Kira and the others, Yzak and Dearka had their moments in stopping the coup by PLANT’s radical faction, aka Jagannath.

Fukuda: They’re both in PLANT’s intelligence department now, so they’re in good positions. Dearka gets information through Terminal, and Yzak immediately takes the chairman away and prepares the Eternal, so they’re well-prepared.

——It’s like they’ve been through a lot of battles.

Fukuda: It was all under Waltfeld’s command that they took out the Eternal and sent in the BuCUEs. Normally, they would use GINNs or regular MSs, but since it’s Waltfeld’s squad, they use the BuCUEs, which are ground combat units.

——I see. Waltfeld only appeared in one shot in the film, but he played a big role, didn’t he?

Fukuda: It was great how Yzak secured the chairman. With the chairman issuing orders to suppress the rebellion, they could use force to stop the insurgents with legal backing. No matter what dangerous mecha Yzak and the team brought out, it would all be justified under extraordinary measures.

——I thought it was a bit dangerous that they had prepared a nuclear-powered unit (laughs).

Fukuda: I wanted to put Yzak and Dearka in their original Duel and Buster. It felt wrong to put them in the Gouf Ignited or the Blaze ZAKU Phantom like in DESTINY. I thought it would be okay to bring out the previous units as they were this time, but…

——The Duel Blitz Gundam and the Lightning Buster Gundam weren’t originally planned to appear?

Fukuda: I intended to equip them with METEOR from the start, so there’s enough firepower without increasing the armament. But the passion of the producers and staff led to the creation of new models for them to pilot.

——Yzak and Dearka’s lines when they confronted Jagannath conveyed the weight of what they were carrying and their emotional growth.

Fukuda: With ZAFT now having a rank system, Yzak is a Commander, and Dearka is a Lieutenant. They’re like department heads in a company, so it would be a problem if they said the same things as footsoldiers or ensigns (laughs). Moreover, their peer Athrun is now a Captain-class.

——Athrun, who saved Kira from danger, piloted the Strike Freedom Gundam Type II as a decoy, and shot down Shura, the leader of the Black Knight Squadron, was very active. I was surprised when he showed up in a Z’Gok.

Fukuda: I was surprised at how much of a hot topic it became. I thought it’d be amusing if Infinite Justice Gundam Type II popped out of a Z’Gok. But I didn’t anticipate so much laughter (laughs).

——It was kept under wraps until the movie was released, and I think it became a topic of conversation among fans because it was a surprise.

Fukuda: I told the producer that we didn’t have to hide the Z’Gok. But the moment we brought out the Z’Gok, people would ask, “So where’s the Justice?” If that happened, people would start speculating unnecessarily, so I later thought it was the right decision to hide the Z’Gok.

——In the decisive battle with Shura, Athrun showed meticulous preparation, taking double and triple measures against the Accord.

Fukuda: When you first fight and realize that your opponent is too strong to win against if you fight head-on, there’s no way you’re going to fight the same way again, right? Athrun is a very capable soldier, so he attacks the enemy’s weaknesses and prepares a surefire strategy for the rematch.

——He assessed Shura’s capabilities on Earth and made his plans accordingly.

Fukuda: That’s right. The switch to remote control was planned with Cagalli and Meyrin. The tactic was to hand control over to Cagalli when he called out “Cagalli” and to fantasize so that the enemy wouldn’t read it. After that, it wasn’t that Cagalli was reading Athrun’s habits and moving, but that Athrun had told her beforehand to move to the left without hesitation, go to the right, and aim for the back with the linear cannon when there was an opening. Since the enemy reads minds, Athrun, not Cagalli and the others, has the initiative to take action.

——Was using the head-mounted beam saber at the very end also a trump card you kept in reserve?

Fukuda: Of course. Cornering the enemy with various tactics, then when they think they’ve won by cutting off the arm, deliver the final blow. It’s like the strategy of “offer the flesh to cut the bone.”

——Hearing you say it like that makes it seem like Athrun is really clever, isn’t he?

Fukuda: Athrun will do anything to win, so if it’s about devising a strategy, he’s the most reliable. You can’t beat this guy; he’s cunning.

——Poor Shura…

Fukuda: Well, it’s his fault for trying to fight head-on. It’s war, after all.

LIFE ISN’T SOMETHING YOU CREATE; IT’S SOMETHING THAT’S BORN

——In the battle with Accord, Shinn was criticized for not thinking during the decisive battle, with someone saying, “Is he not thinking at all!?” But I believe it’s not that he was fighting without any thoughts, right?

Fukuda: Yes, Shinn fights on reflex. But what I want to say to Shinn is, “you get better results when you don’t overthink. Don’t think too much. Just do it when you’ve decided to act.” That’s the message.

——So, being entrusted with the defense of the Millennium by Kira was a situation where he could perform at his best?

Fukuda: That’s right. That kid works hard when he’s trusted.

——Another thing I was curious about was Stella appearing from Shinn. What was that all about?

Fukuda: That’s the Stella in Shinn’s heart. In that scene, I think Stella’s feelings protected Shinn… The ghost-like Stella that appeared after that is just how she appears to Accord and the others. When you think about the word “protect” that Shinn says, I think Stella’s will remains in him.

——For Shinn, Stella was a symbol of the word “protect.”

Fukuda: It’s not that Shinn is haunted by the dead; it’s just that he’s always remembering them, just like he keeps his sister’s (Mayu’s) cell phone close by. Just as Stella said, “So, I’ll see you tomorrow,” in the final episode of DESTINY, Shinn can always go to meet her in his heart. In that sense, I think everyone has the feelings of those who have passed away in their hearts. It’s not that Shinn has forgotten about Luna. He really does like Luna.

——Regarding Shinn and Lunamaria’s relationship, Kenichi Suzumura, who plays Shinn, said in an interview in the previous issue that he was given direction from you about the scene where Shinn sighs on the deck, saying, “I tried to make a move on Lunamaria once, but it didn’t go well and it’s a little awkward.”

Fukuda: Oh, I might have said something like that.

——It could even be interpreted that Lunamaria approached Shinn and Shinn ran away.

Fukuda: Shinn is a kid, so people tend to think he wouldn’t do something like that, but he’s already 17 years old. If he gets excited, I think Shinn would try to push the relationship forward, right? But Luna is more mature, and they’ve known each other for a long time, so I think she tried to create that mood, but Shinn didn’t pick up on it enough and dodged it. Even though Luna was okay with it emotionally, she might have laughed when she saw Shinn trying so hard. And then Shinn ran away saying, “Damn it!” I think he was badly hurt at that time.

——I was also surprised that he was piloting the Immortal Justice Gundam at the beginning.

Fukuda: There’s a backstory to Shinn piloting it, but essentially, it’s because it, along with Kira’s Rising Freedom, was officially adopted by COMPS. Both are units given to the aces of COMPS, so it makes sense for Shinn to pilot it. When DESTINY ended, I put a lot of effort into thinking about the mecha-based war, but I was a bit frustrated that few people appreciated it. So, this time, I thought I’d try to make it a little more realistic.

——In a sense, it was also a revenge for that time.

Fukuda: The basic idea in warfare is to minimize costs, ensuring sustained combat capability with minimal expense. In the Cosmic Era, post two wars, the world is steeped in poverty, with limited resources to allocate to military power. If you think about developing new models in that situation, you’d have to share parts or have various countries work together. That was the idea, so I told the designer, Okawara, that the new Freedom and Justice should have almost the same design, with only the face, shoulders, and armaments being different. If we use Gunpla as an example, it’s like having Freedom and Justice runners in one kit, so you can build either one. But when I saw the designs, they were so different that sharing parts seemed impossible (laughs). I felt Okawara’s strong commitment, and I thought it was fine as it was.

——At the end, the MSs that were active in DESTINY appeared in modified forms as the Strike Freedom Gundam II, Destiny Gundam Spec II, and Force Impulse Gundam Spec II.

Fukuda: I thought they could have stayed the same as before, but they changed quite a bit. I had written in the plot stage in the ’00s that they would pilot the previous units at the end. But then Top Gun: Maverick came out with a similar plot, and I thought, “Oh no” (laughs).

——It might seem like following their lead (laughs). I was pleasantly surprised and unexpected to see the return of the old models, especially since Shinn had lines suggesting his attachment to Destiny.

Fukuda: The Destiny is tuned for Shinn, and he probably has an attachment to it. Who decided that new models are stronger? I’ve always questioned that. Morosawa and I always thought that older models are more familiar and reliable to the pilots, and there’s no point in making new models unless they’re two or three generations ahead. The Destiny was an over-spec unit when it was created, and it’s still good enough today.

——For sure. I was wondering what the principle behind Destiny’s afterimage was while watching.

Fukuda: We thought that would make for a more cathartic production, so we’ll think about the logic later. Ultimately, there are parts created more from emotion than reason.

——Speaking of emotion over reason, that theme permeates this work, like when Kira talks about love being a weapon.

Fukuda: As Lacus says in her line, life is not born out of necessity but out of love. That’s the theme. It was written in the first line of Morosawa’s plot. Coordinator, Natural, Destiny Plan, it doesn’t matter. Life is not something you create; it’s something that’s born. That’s the ultimate conclusion of the SEED world.